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Post by kirkfraser on Apr 24, 2012 19:05:20 GMT -5
Jesus the Creator prayed for those who believe in Him to be one as He and His Father are one. Why is it we see tens of thousands of divided denominations, various preference groups within denominations, cliques within those, and a laity which will cooperate with clergy or other hierarchy to excommunicate true believers over trivial matters? If the creator prayed for oneness, oneness He shall have. His absolutely perfect oneness is in Him, not oneness with divisions or disobedience of His commandments.
The vast dimensions of God include the top dimension, Jesus the standard measure of absolute perfection in human form. The bottom dimension is Paul who recognized he is less than the least of all saints, so that no believer in history will ever be worse than Paul in disobeying Jesus and still be included in God’s kingdom. Between the top and bottom are the saints. With a child in Jesus’ hands being the greatest in His Kingdom, we see the closeness, openness, and obedience to Jesus makes one able to serve all mankind, the measure of the saints in God’s kingdom.
Regarding relationships on earth, Jesus made his saints equal under Him in Mat. 23. So there is no room for hierarchies in churches or their practice in business and government among true believers. Yet today positions of management are more important and well paid than people who actually work. So where is the equality He created and the oneness with Him? The vision is seen clearly by changing the spectrum from Jesus to Paul to Satan from a right to left number line into a top to bottom graphic. With Jesus at the top and Paul at the bottom of God’s kingdom what comes below is Satan’s kingdom. All who follow Paul are by definition following below the least of all saints, so they are outside God’s kingdom in the kingdom of Satan, sin, and death where thieves steal what they want instead of simply receiving that which is given freely by God.
So finally that explains it. All denominations are organizations of sin, serving Satan, with the ultimate goal of death. People must leave them as Rev. 18:4 commands in order to join the true church where Jesus is the one and only author, owner, and leader. Everyone must move up out of their denominations to be saints serving Jesus only.
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Post by kirkfraser on Apr 30, 2012 6:36:10 GMT -5
Jesus Christ is the best Bible analyst ever. He condensed best of the Old Testament into His Gospel and lived it as an example to us. To better understand why traditional Christianity is wrong, we need to dig deeper into the truth of Paul's criminal disobediences in violation of Jesus the Creator's absolutely perfect commands.
The most obvious disobedience was Paul setting up elders and teaching men to do so, in direct violation of Matthew 23:8 where Rabbi exactly means elder to Jews according to the Chief Archaeologist in Israel speaking on TBN. If you think about what Rabbis do compared to a denomination that has only elders but no special pastors, it is a match. Paul's disobedience earned him the judgement of Matthew 5:19, being the least in the Kingdom, because he not only disobeyed on his own but he also taught men, Timothy and Titus to set up elders, which is a social disease that came into God's people from Egypt, to have slave drivers over God's people Israel.
Now expanding our understanding of this great sin, notice Jesus didn't stop with Rabbi in Matthew 23:8-10 but listed other positions of inequality among believers saying He is all those things to us. Paul went even further making positions out of such things as teacher and workers of miracles by calling them gifts, as a position assigned, instead of using Jesus' word, talents which implies skills which we can learn, trade, and multiply. So in Jesus' view everyone can become like Him in every way, except claiming to be Him. Paul's view is every position is fixed and you are exceptional if you have two such as elder and teacher at the same time. Thus Jesus encourages spiritual growth and Paul encourages division.
The proof of this can be seen observing new churches which want to get closer to God than old institutional churches, some wanting to live the 1st century church life. They may start with a pure heart but once they fail to live the Gospel and backslide into Paul's epistles, they become the very kind of institution they sought to flee from. Thus Paul's words continue to corrupt anyone who follows them instead of the Gospel to this day.
Then we see the 1st century church wasn't really the best, what is needed is the true church which came down from heaven in Jesus' blood and to my knowledge was never intentionally practiced after Jesus' perfect example, which included stepping aside, dying, or killing the teacher-student hierarchy after 3 years and sending them out in answer to prayer to the Lord of the Harvest to start their own group of 12 for 3.26 years.
Another obvious crime of Paul against Jesus' absolute perfection is the matter of serving money. It's obvious because Rev. 17:5 calls the Roman Catholic Church and all her daughters (born during the Great Reformation and since) harlots, whores, or prostitutes, whose character is selling love for money. So we see that conclusive assessment against traditional churches and the remedy given by God in Rev. 18:4 is to come out of them, not try to restore them to their first love. So backtracking to the book of Romans, where Paul taught those who would become Catholics, Paul made it a duty to donate material goods for spiritual. To see the outrageous crime perpetrated by Paul here, let's take a quick look at the church Jesus intends.
Jesus wants all people to believe Him to the extent of doing all the miracles He did as a foundation for doing greater works. Miracles of healing, feeding, transportation, and more would be so common that the true church would be run by prayer alone and money would be worthless for you couldn't buy anything that couldn't be made better by God's miracles. Just think, if all believers actually did that, who would you donate a tithe to? Everybody would equally deserve it.
Now back to Paul. If you look at Paul's bottom of the barrel concept of making it a duty to donate material goods for spiritual, you have a system of secularizing churches so nothing depends on God's spiritual work but only on money. That explains how Paul's disobedience fathered the great whore and her many daughters who serve hierarchy and money.
When you consider Paul's fruit includes all the crusades and wars started by Catholics plus abominations from homos to Muslims which they founded, furthered, and to some extent control based on Rev. 17:3, 5, it's clear no believer can ever be worse than Paul. If Paul is accepted in God's kingdom as least, any true believer will do better.
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Post by Rev. Dr. Red on Apr 30, 2012 12:38:01 GMT -5
Im not arguiing Paul was wrong in some aspects. But Paul, as was Judas was hand selected by Jesus. He knew what was going to happen before it happened. He set things to motion in the way He wanted. And Paul did do his best in a world of disbelievers to maintain order. Furthermore, we are not gods. We can walk as best as we can but we cannot reach the same level, for than we would be Him. Jesus also stated He would appoint kings in the thousand year reign who would answer to Him. And the Apostles are each to head the individual tribes. There is a lesson to be learned from Paul, otherwise Jesus would not have chosen him.
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Post by kirkfraser on May 1, 2012 4:10:16 GMT -5
I guess what Paul said was about half right in order to justify his inclusion at the bottom of God's kingdom but his Gospel, that Jesus died and rose again, while true, is so much less than one of the 4 Gospels. As we'll see the more we progress in the New Pentateuch, the 5 books with most of Jesus' words which are Mt Mk Lk Jn Rv, the vast riches of Christ are so much greater and all inclusive there really is no need to spend significant time on Paul, or any other follower of Jesus the perfect Creator.
I'll start a thread on prayer showing some of the great things we can pray to Jesus Christ which are far above all Paul asked or thought.
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Post by kirkfraser on Sept 13, 2012 1:04:01 GMT -5
Purpose of true church – make everyone like Jesus Christ.
Means – Exercise love and faith, ask Jesus for approved things to do and miracle help to do them. This includes all the miracles Jesus did, going on to do greater works cooperating with Him, and speaking God's best truth as inspired, to build His kingdom on earth.
As Jesus practiced with his disciples, intense training of 12 in Spirit and Word for 3 years, spiritually sending them out, and leaving them within 3.5 years. Repeating Jesus' example would multiply, saving everyone in 35 years.
Transition from low life to Jesus' life - Help people walk with God from initial salvation to following Jesus wherever he goes to ascension and following Him in heaven. The transition can be accomplished instantly or slowly according to your faith. One major lesson is to follow the true Holy Spirit instead of submitting to a human spirit which may have sown false ideas into their spiritual life.
Ask God for anything including healing a single illness to healing multiple problems in multiple people at the same time and beyond by first hearing from God in Heaven then doing whatever He says.
The worst case in the Kingdom was Paul who disobeyed Jesus on money and positions which prostitutes denominations to this day but he also started 10 churches. Anything less including those who follow Paul without trying to move up to follow Jesus is below the kingdom of God in the kingdom of Satan.
True church is governed by the love of Jesus Christ. Obey no hierarchy, just Jesus and His body of equals. Jesus gave a process for dealing with offenses – tell it to the offender, bring another to explain it, tell it to the church, and if still ignored, treat the offender as needing initial salvation, a heathen or publican.
Since the church is organized in groups of 12 that last for 3.5 years, there is little problem finding or starting another church if an innocent is unjustly lowered from equal to unsaved status. With small temporary groups it is unlikely for manipulator organizers to succeed. True believers cannot be mistreated for life in true church as in denominations falsely named church. It is not possible for a church which acts against someone expressing God's truth to prevail for long or they cease being a true church.
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Post by kirkfraser on Jan 3, 2013 6:18:09 GMT -5
Jesus authorized equality under Him in Mat. 23, not hierarchy. Are you interested in preaching the true church which hasn't been obeyed since Jesus was on earth? All denominations are condemned in Rev. 17:5 and God's faithful are called out in Rev. 18:4. "My church" is a failed concept - which creates competitors, guaranteeing division. We need Jesus' church to be fully true to Him. Then everyone must appeal to Jesus as boss and the world can be saved, except for the few needed to fulfill prophecy.
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